Proposition 85 rally and protest in downtown Bakersfield. Where do you stand on abortion consent? - By N.L. Belardes
I was headed from Westchester Bowling Alley where you can get big breakfasts in a retro diner—all to the sounds of crashing pins. It’s great people watching too: the old barstools, the fluffy booths and funky waitresses. In fact, I went there twice this weekend. Both times I think it was women who decided.
Speaking of women’s decisions…
After my bowling alley breakfast, I stumbled upon a Proposition 85 rally in downtown Bakersfield. People from nearby Catholic churches lined the streets in support of the proposition that claims it illegal to have an abortion without parental consent (Learn more on their position).
Read an LA Times article about why Proposition 85 is a bad idea. (More on the official no on prop 85 campaign)
Is religion a political wedge for prop 85?
A polite debate over issues.
Interesting how the same proposition was on the ballot a year ago as prop 73 and was voted down. And, interesting how the Catholic church is rallying around a “Yes” vote this year. I wonder where big money is changing hands and shaking trees for rally people. Personally, I think taking away women’s right to choose is a bad idea and can lead to more forms of government control in the future. Who wants a Chinese situation where overcrowding can lead to a government dictating who has abortions and when. Taking control from women can lead to a strange path far from the guise of “parental rights” and “Parental consent” that’s on this proposition… Yes, I project way into the future... big brother is closer than you think.
I believe there are situations where decisions aren't just about perfect family scenarios. There's just too many bad families out there where a parent could really cause harm by having control...
Just leave Roe vs. Wade alone already.
The woman in blue crossing the street said she just wanted to learn the views of the protester.
Catholic rally lady prepares rosaries...
There were a couple of protesters in the mix, one young man wearing a Bako Zines T-shirt and holding a sign. The other protester was a young lady who asked not to be photographed but who mentioned being a part of Food NOT Bombs, a local charitable organization who feeds homeless in Bakersfield’s Central Park with vegetarian delights.
The young man mentioned, “The Catholics are trying to block us,” while a woman in a blue shirt said, “No we didn’t. We just wanted to understand your position.”
There were a few polite debates in the few minutes I was there. But nothing ugly that I witnessed...
Although a Rebublican moderate, I admit I lean to the left on this issue. Where's your lean? Let's try not to get too ugly in the comments.
This entry was posted by N.L. Belardes, on
Monday, October 02, 2006.
You can leave your response.
I was the young lady protesting! Kudos pour moi.
Love,
Rudegirl
As a parent, I would -like- to know if my daughter were in a situation like that. I definitely lean left on this issue and I would not ever want my daughter to have to deal with the trials of being a parent before she even reaches a legal voting age. I'd hope that she would have learned enough from talks about safe sex not to get into this situation, but we all know things happen...
Religion has no deserving right in politics and yet we consistently find more and more of them in bills... I think parental consent could be an option but not THE only decision...
Case in point: A family friend recently became pregnant at sixteen (!!!!) - her 'God-fearing parental unit' insisted she marry this boy but lo and behold, they find out now he's a criminal who gets radios for free & beats their daughter. Typical beaten wife syndrome plus being a 16 year old girl make this child think her 'husband' is the world.
They refused to let their daughter go through with an abortion and now (on top of the many sacrifices of parenthood) she's in something even worse.
Hmm, kinda went way off course there but ... I think everyone gets the point.
Well I believer after I read this proposition although I AM pro choice - I don't believe that a minor should be able to get an abortion without having to tell their parents or gaurdians... that's just rediculous. And as a catholic myself I don't like that the article suggests that ALL catholics are just one sided on the situation because we all have our independent viewpoints as well...
My best friends are Catholic. I was baptised Catholic and in no way does this article suggest the people on the streets represent all catholics. But there is a catholic movement as the web link and the rally suggests.
If all catholics in Bakersfield took the views of those on the streets, there would have been many more. It's a touchy issue with important points on both sides.
You're not a bad person no matter which side you take in this issue.
And I can see Madam Larue's point. She as a parent has a right to know, and a right to make her opinion known about who would make such a decision in her family.
Important case in point too. I think the probem is there are soooo many scenarios that can justify either position.
I'm confused by one pic...there's a guy holding a sign with one hand and "flipping a bird" with the other hand. Only, he's doing it backwards, like at himself. I am old and ignorant to some of the new techniques going around. What exactly does the backward "flip off" mean?...maybe I could use it now and then...it's worth a free smoothie by the way!
As a social worker for the past 8 years, I can definitely say I am pro choice. There are too many unwanted and unloved children out there who are sucking the system dry as they receive welfare benefits. And it’s not their faults; it’s their irresponsible parent’s faults.
N.L., maybe we should be a little more like China so that hard working adults don’t have to keep paying for other people’s children and the parents can be held responsible for their own actions. Shit, people think illegal immigrants are sucking our economy dry; they should look at Welfare stats. At least immigrants work; most Welfare recipients are receiving cash aid, Medical, and food stamps. People need to open their eyes and look at the real issues not just one piece of the puzzle.
In a side note regarding welfare and unemployment:
Welfare and unemployment in Bakersfield is a huge issue. I don't know the current stats. I'm afraid to go look on the county website, but it has been twice the state average for some time.
I used to work on a local TV show called "Careers in Kern" about getting kids jazzed about vocations: nursing, truck driving, machinists, culinary arts...
Too many kids leave high schools not going to college AND not working...
The government cut funding to that show.
Does anyone know if Catholics believe in the 10 commandments? Isn’t their commandment where God says: “Thou salt NOT worship any image before me”. What about the Virgin Mary? Isn’t she an image? But I guess if Catholics don’t believe in the 10 commandments, it doesn’t really matter
Oh yeah, and why do Catholics need a cross with our savior on it? The Jesus I know was delivered from the cross a lot time ago. As a Christian, I know what Jesus did; I don’t need to be reminded of what he did for us
In a side note regarding welfare and unemployment:
Welfare and unemployment in Bakersfield is a huge issue. I don't know the current stats. I'm afraid to go look on the county website, but it has been twice the state average for some time.
I used to work on a local TV show called "Careers in Kern" about getting kids jazzed about vocations: nursing, truck driving, machinists, culinary arts...
Too many kids leave high schools not going to college AND not working...
The government cut funding to that show.
I won't allow any more comments bashing Catholics or protestants.
That's just dumb.
My kids go to a protestant church. Some of my friends go to catholic churches... who cares?? religion is a right... be proud of who you are and don't mock fellow Christians on my site... I'm not a practicing anything. But that's all beside the point.
This was a catholic rally. I pointed that out. So what? I'm no bashing catholics by pointing out that some people in their organization are playing politics. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson play politics. So what?
Be nice in your debate.
I believe in pro choice. Women have the right to make that choice, having an abortion or having a child is the hardest choice a woman has to make, and either way, she lives with the consequences of her choice.
thank you for not allowing catholic-protestant-denomination bashing on the site that YOU HOST. haters can post on their own hate sites. to hell with them!! my little grandma prayed the rosary every morning & most people would be lucky to be the type of person she was. my family joked the church would fall down if i walked in, & tho these days my spiritual life is much better, i still don't worship in any house except to wonder at the architectural, artistic, & "false idol" loveliness. going to church works for many, however; it takes all kinds. catholic haters, why don't you go put your form-fitting pointy white sheets on & jump off the bluffs in protest? or even better, go work out your turmoil by volunteering?
to your question of where your readers stand, i only want to say that i was happy to see pictures of young MEN protesting this issue. a woman praying the rosary, well, even if i disagree with her & wonder where her solidarity with other women lies, at least the issue affects her directly in that she can be impregnated. it always burns me to see males denying "a woman's right to choose" when they will never, ever, ever be the ones who are inseminated. as for "the rights of the fetus," please, let's not even get started on such semantic manipulation!!!!
you young fellows, go. to defend the rights of people in whose position you will never, ever be is noble.
This issue brings out the most passionate of emotions in people, doesn't it? LOL
Thank you for the links. I'll have to read up some more about both sides.
It's never as simple as I'm Catholic so therefore I believe this. Or I'm agnostic so I believe that. It's about so much more than that.
Once again, this isn’t a Catholic bashing site. In fact, if I wanted to bash Catholics I wouldn’t have included a link to their site supporting prop 85. People can go there and make their own decisions.
I do criticize religion in politics and religious big money spending. But all religions spend heavily in the political arena: Catholics, protestants, Mormons, those pesky Jehovahs (someone’s making money and spending it like the dickens at the top), and even those isolationist Amish… it happens.
As for the crucifix being an idol. A cross is an idol, a Starbucks cup is an idol, Abercrombie and fitch is an idol. Businesses revolve around logos and getting people to worship them (Yes, even Noveltown wants brand recognition).
We’re an idol-driven society who even likes their cheesy AMERICAN IDOLS.
Faith is personal. You have to believe in something. Even non-believing is believing.
As a parent, I would hope that I was close enough with my chidren that they would share this information with me. As a child, I had a horrible and abusive step-father. If I had been in the situation where I needed an abortion I would have hoped that I could leave my step-dad's opinions out of it.
I had a close family member that had to have an abortion as well as a close friend. It was truly for the best that they did so. When I was very young we were very very poor. If we had another mouth to feed it would have been even worse off for us.
I cannot justify people having children and then being illprepared to take care of them. We've seen all the stories about shaken babies, drowned babies and babies in trash cans. Those babies suffer. We've seen the stories about kids locked in closets, sleeping in cages, and starved and abused. Those kids suffer. Some people are not ready for children. If they are smart enough to know it, we should let them make a choice that is best for them.
I am pro-choice, but have always chosen to keep my babies when I became pregnant. I had my first child at 19 and was praying I wasn't making a mistake. He is a great soon-to-be-eight year old now. I actually seriously thought about my choices when I became pregnant with my daughter. I made the right decision for me and she is now almost three. I am grateful I have my children, but I am just as grateful that I have a choice in the matter. I feel it is not up to me to judge others.
I hope my children can come to me if they feel the need for an abortion (or trying sex, drugs, etc) but I also hope I am raising them in a way that they can make good choices and know what is best for themselves. I know that there are teens out there that cannot discuss things with their parents and would rather they could make their own choices without having to tell potentially dangerous people (even if those people may happen to be their own parents.) I am afraid that if we slip a little on the abortion issue it will end up being back alleys with hangers and that is just not acceptable.
However, I also appreciate the people that rallied yesterday. I was concerned for the very young children I saw, and am unsure if they truly knew why they were marching. But I imagine it was a beautiul experience for everyone with the grey drizzle and the slight chill - like the day was mourning with them. I hope they all took a chance to really talk about the issues instead of just getting a sign thrust at them and told to walk with mommy.
One thing. I hate the pictures of dead babies. Its not okay to show that to my children. I don't show them pictures of dead soldiers or civilians killed in war and I don't feel its appropriate to show that to my kids. I understand they may feel it is a god learning tool, but I am not okay with showing my children that stuff and would appreciate it if they didn't throw it up there in a way that my kids are forced to see it.
Still didn’t answer the question of weather or Catholics believe in the 10 commandments or not. Your post sounds more like hating to me than what I wrote. I wouldn’t wish harm on anyone like your suggestion of jumping off the bluffs. I believe that whatever works for people to find goodness within their “spirituality” can’t be bad. I only posed questions about a religion that is supposed to be a “Christian” religion. I have always wondered about the questions I asked, but like your response, I never get a strait answer.
ok... is it Food FOR Bombs? LOL
Or Food NOT Bombs? hahahaha
I was confused until I finally clicked on the link and read the site.
oops. i fixed the typo
This isn't a forum to answer religious questions. Baiting people about the ten commandments? Go google your questions. You'll find answers.
This isn't the forum for explaining in detail how and what Catholics believe...
And go google that mormon underwear thing too while you're at it.
heh.
Religion aside folks. Where is the common sense in letting a child, or teenager if you will, decide what the best option for them is under these types of circumstances?
Kids have a hard enough time figuring out what style of clothes to wear to school these days for crying out loud. I do not believe they are sound enough of mind to make life altering decisions such as having an abortion, without consulting in their parents or guardians.
Lets face it, if they aren't smart enough to take preventative measures while in the midst of a bedroom romp, what makes you believe they understand the consequences of aborting a child?
Like I said earlier, kids have a hard enough time with figuring out what clothes to wear, how to style their hair, what group of kids to hang with, what the consequences of drug use entail, how to deal with the school bully, and just yearning to "belong" to something significant in life.
We can't take the parents totally out of the equation and that is what is happening here. As it stands, parents lose ground "legally" everyday in regards to raising and nurturing their children. It is damn near illegal to discipline your kid in a physical manner these days, kids can now divorce their parents in court, kids have rights to confidentiality, meaning somethings just aren't their parent's business... And they can sue you for infringing upon any of the above.
This is BULLSHIT. Kids are already being held less and less accountable for their actions. If they want to act as adults, then they should be treated as such, each and every time they fuck up.
You mean the Mormon cult? They are more like a cult than anything. Ever heard of the Salamander letter/ paper?
I just thought that since there were some alleged Catholics on this site that maybe they could help in answering such seemingly simple questions. I guess some people just can’t handle reality.
And NL, you are kinda right about: “We’re an idol-driven society who even likes their cheesy AMERICAN IDOLS.” But, people don’t pray to such idols and ask them for guidance and forgiveness.
A Christian passage: "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."
Too many people are bound by so many non truths.
Where do truths lye in you NL?
Amen Heath, Amen!
Anonymous. I disagree. I bet a lot of people do worship and pray to their American idols.
As for me, this isn't the forum where I try to evangelize anyone to my spiritual beliefs. The topic is prop 85.
And quit being anonymous!
:)
I have to remain anonymous. Too many people will judge me based on one little comment. I change my mind a lot based on new information (usually) and I wouldn't want someone who doesn't agree with something I say to think that I am firmly rooted in a comment.
Everyone (even us heathens) believes in the Ten Commandments. Nobody, not even Christians or Catholics follow them. We may all try to but fall short.
I don't think the focus should be on the commandments. It should be on the actual issue. Prop 85. Are you for or against it? And why?
I like what Dobbler said...but I'm still curious as to the "flipping bird" pics. "Flipping a bird", like the famous Johnny Cash pics, use to mean and emotionally display something. But the backwards sign I am not aware of it's connotation. Is it a Catholic thing? Is he flipping off himself holding the sign? So he doesn't agree with himself? Does it represent us flipping him off? Is it a Star Trek gang sign? Is he flipping himself off and hitching a ride at the same time?I'm just curious cause it got two piccs in this article that's all.
Anonymous, you've made another good point. People shouldn't be held to comments as the end all of our opinions on topics.
I don't know what the sign means. Star Trek gang sign... lol.
I'm Catholic, and my mom used to also work on the abortion floor as an R.N., making the patients comfortable. I'm for prop 85, not because I am blindly supporting a Catholic agenda, but if my child was pregnant, I would like to know. And they are children. It's not mandating that 18 year olds tell their parents. Choosing to have sex is a very adult decision, with adult repercussions. At a time where a teenager's biggest issues should be zits and geometry homework, we as a society are being forced to look closer at the lives of our children. To me, getting pregnant in highschool is the equivalent of having an eating disorder, smoking pot, etc.: i.e. these are legitimately troubling issues that no teenager should face on their own. And what if the pregnancy wasn't a result of consensual sex? If my daughter was raped, I would sure as hell want to make sure that she knew that she had my support and love whether or not she wanted to keep the child. The psychological and physical implications of having an abortion are endless, to the extent that this one time event can permanently damage the mother's reproductive anatomy. To be fair, so are those accompanying being a teen mother or father. However, there are countless married couples out there who cannot conceive, who would love to care for a healthy baby boy or girl. So do you have taxpayer dollars go toward ending a potentially promising life, or towards supporting a potential welfare family? It's a bitch. I know that my best friend was conceived when his mother was sixteen. If she had terminated the pregnancy, I never would have met him.
I'm definitely a no on Prop 85 ...
I had my daughter at the young age of 18, but that was a personal decision of my own (I became pregnant at 17). I'm Pro-Choice ... but become less pro-choice after the 21 week mark unless it's a danger to the mother's health, or the fetus is unhealthy.
Anyway ... when I found out I was pregnant I didn't tell my mom, shoot, I didn't even live at home. I'd moved out at the beginning of my senior year when I was 16. I debated on having an abortion ... but after asking that higher power for guidance, I chose to keep my child. After that I even considered adoption ... but again asking for guidance I knew that I would be able to raise my child on my own. And I have ... it hasn't been easy, but what hasn't killed me has only made me stronger and I love the bugger to death. Without her I don’t think I’d be as grounded as I am, my instinct has always drawn me to the life of a Gypsy – never settling down, always on the move, odd jobs, traveling from place to place. Instead I have a solid job and took a leap and bought a house.
So what if Prop 85 had been a law back then and I had chosen to abort? I would have been forced to ask my mother and father for permission ... which would absolutely have not made any sense because at the time I was completely supporting myself and had been for nearly a year (working part-time, living in my own apartment, and finishing high school early).
I understand this Prop is generalized more toward girls younger than I was. We all hope that our relationships with our little girls is open enough that they can feel comfortable about telling us they were pregnant and want to abort ... but not all homes are safe havens. Some of these little girls might get the crap knocked out of them just for mentioning it. Or maybe they'll be ostracized from their family ... even worse - maybe their parents say "no" and the child takes matters into her own hands and we start a spree of deaths due to girls trying to perform an abortion on themselves (remember that back in the day?)
So all things considered, I personally feel that Prop 85 is a bad idea.
Personally I am pro-life, and it’s not only a religious thing for me. My personal morals are based on my religion however I think that in order to solve the abortion issue one must answer the question for him or herself, “What is a fetus?” I know that it is a law of science that when two of the same species mate the outcome is another of that same species, therefore when two humans mate the outcome is a human. Second question, “What makes something human?” Ask yourself. Is it their size? Does being smaller make a fetus less human, if so then my 2 year old niece is lees human than myself. Is it the level of development that makes a fetus less human, again then it is ok for me to terminate the lives of my niece and any mentally handicapped people I know because they are less developed then me. Maybe it is their environment that makes them less human? But as far as I know where I am has no effect on who I am. How can eight inches of a birth canal make them human? Perhaps it is their degree of dependency? Maybe since they can not yet breathe or eat on their own they are not yet humans? Well we better start lining up at hospitals and un-plugging machines because if that is the case then we are allowing a lot “non-humans” to live in ICU’s around the country. Think about it, it’s not about religion, its science.
Okay anonymous now you have my panties in a bunch:
I am Catholic. Yes we believe in the ten commandments, you silly silly rabbit.Where is your evidence that we don't? What "brilliant" point are you trying to make? We are Christians. Our practice just worships a little bit differently. Mary is not an idol. We believe that she was the humble, loving mother of Christ, and someone that we can come to with our problems. When we say the Haily Mary, we recite the line "Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for our sinners". We as Catholics acknowledge that we are not perfect beings. She's just someone to lean on. We also pray to saints, not plastic bobbleheads, real people who did great things through the power of Christ. Did someone piss in your cheerios today?
No more religious attacks you guys.
Sorry anonymous. I had to draw the line. Take your argument to a Californian blog. :)
peace.
n.l.
Sorry anon. I'm not mad, nor do I hate you. I just want to keep control of a possible volitile conversation.
There is nothing volitile on my side and all this ties into the Catholic point of view in relation to the prop 85 issues. You know I am right. I'd bet some of the stuff I am talking about is why you're not a Catholic anymore. My dad was Catholic too before he realized what the religion tought as opposed to what the Bible says;)
I'll allow your last comment, anon. It's the potential for a volitile situation is why I am ending the "Who's perception of God is better" debate.
I won't be discussing my spiritual beliefs on here.
:)
I have a question. If you're pro choice, are you automatically against this proposition? Or is there anybody out there that is pro choice, but against teen choice? I'm curious.
Because a lot of the comments seem to be pro choice comments, and Prop 85 isn't about that, is it? It's about parental notification, right? Or am I confused?
It's also not a religious only issue. The rally I stumbled on happened to be a Catholic rally.
Views are as diverse as people, Norma.
I just did a little googlizing since this page was getting pretty hot...check out this page http://www.parentsright2know.org/index.html...
???? I'm not catholic????
Uh oh, AJ has entered the building. What's up, toots?
I'm Catholic, pro choice and totally for prop 85. I think a woman has a right to choose. I don't think a LITTLE girl has the same rights! If you don't mind a 14 year old getting an abortion without parental consent, then you shouldn't be offended if the man banging her is 40. Lets lower the age of consent to 12 years of age. While were at it, if my 16 year old runs over your grandma at a cross walk, sue my teen and don't come after me, it's none of my business. If a woman wants to rip a baby out of her womb, great! Have a partial birth and beat "IT" in the face and throw it in the trash. If you're such an irresponsible whore and you just have to fuck night after night unprotected......good for you! Head down to the clinic and tear that mistake out of your rotton crotch. I'm fine with that. But if my 3 daughters want to hide something from me as serious as this, It would be nice to know they wouldn't do it until I know. Think about it. Can you imagine? You looking in your 12 year old's trapper keeper and in her things to do it say's, "Get an abortion, get my boob job and tummy tuck, play hopscotch." As read more and more about this issue, the more i've come to realize just how much everyone around me is sick and fucked up in the head.
i'm a proud, tried and true CATHOLIC. i agree with kenny.
it sad really that we would even vote on something like this or bring it to the table. I really can't agree with not telling parents that there daughter is getting an abortion.
Please people.. Stop acting like fate gets you pregnant and stop having sex until you get married? If you can't wait then deal with the consequence. The child is the one that suffers and is killed.
Teachers can't give asprin, doctors can treat without a written constent, but you will give others the right to let your daughter kill her child.
when did human life become a desicion?
Holy scrambled eggs Batman! Did the chicken or the egg come first???
The issue on abortion will be just as difficult to conclude!
I had something to say, but now my cookies are burnt after reading all this noise..."El Socialista Surdo"
"if god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him..."-somebody, somewhere
Whew a lot of heated debate here I cant handle it. These kids need to be held to a standard just like dobbler said but if its going to set dangerous precedents it might be something to think about. I'm with you in your assertion that big bother is closer than any of us can imagine.
I like your new picture NL its the best ever. It makes you look really badass because people who wear their hats backwards are soo freaking tough I know I would never even look in the direction of one of those thugs. I'm scared to look at your picture yo.
Kenny is pouring out the passionate words of a papa bear. Black dog, you scoundrel!
ok, ok, everybody's f'd up and we'll never solve the differences on abortion. But maybe we can at least find out what the backwards "flip off" means, and have some kind of resolution here...
The backwards flip-off bares no significant meaning. I believe the poor bastard is just suffering from a touch of cerebral palsy.
There, debate ended.
Maybe he's dyslexic?
there once was a poor dislexic bastard with a touch of cerebral palsy...
he did a backward flip off at an abortion rally, which was quite ballsy...
In my next life I want to come back as a mixture of N.L. and d.w. They're such great writers/poets and just all around cool guys they don't even need real names. Just initials... yup that's how cool they are! heeheehoho
We could mix up the letters in our names and be the Dyslexic DUO
lol!luv ya Norma! You could join the all famous and elite club too...I just didn't want anyone to know my real name-Dave...oh crap, did I just type my real name...ahhhhhhhhhh...I must hide now, the nasty lord's gonna beat me into a strawberry smoothie submission...aahhhhhhhh...
ahahaha The Nasty Lord and Dave. The dyslexic duo. Try saying that five times while holding your tongue.
v o l a t i l e
darn it.
volateel
VOILA!
I'd just like to point out that Tom Cruise used to be dyslexic. Which means, if we follow the natural chain of events, that dyslexia leads to scientology, which leads to impregnating Joey Potter.
ahhhh, now we're getting somewhere. Maybe the backwards "flip off" is a scientology thing!
Gosh, I sure hope that most of your commenters are not actually going to vote. They are so MISINFORMED about Prop. 85. It does not require CONSENT, only notification of at least one parent. It has judicial bypass and emergency medical exceptions and does not apply to married or emancipated minors. It is an attempt to keep parents involved in the lives of girls 12-13-14-15 years old. Right now, you can drop your kid off at school and go to work, and she can be taken from school for an abortion and you would never know. Is this really what we want for our kids? I say Yes on 85!
Hi dude!
Christmas Day falls on December 25. It is preceded by Christmas Eve on December 24, and in some countries is followed by Boxing Day on December 26. Some Eastern Orthodox Churches celebrate Christmas on January 7, which corresponds to December 25 on the Julian calendar. December 25 as a birthdate for Jesus is merely traditional, and is not thought to be his actual date of birth. Regards
Happy new year !-!
o:)))))
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